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	<title>Comments on: Machine-readable Open Access scientific publishing</title>
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		<title>By: 科学的未来 &#124; azalea says</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-21658</link>
		<dc:creator>科学的未来 &#124; azalea says</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 05:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-21658</guid>
		<description>[...] 使所有信息不仅能供人类阅读还能供机器阅读; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 使所有信息不仅能供人类阅读还能供机器阅读; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Gelbart</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8645</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gelbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8645</guid>
		<description>Michael: 

I have documentation from working with them on the publisher side.  I will follow up with you by email.

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: </p>
<p>I have documentation from working with them on the publisher side.  I will follow up with you by email.</p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8641</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8641</guid>
		<description>David: Do you know of a place where Google Scholar&#039;s format is described?  I&#039;ve often wondered what their arrangement with publishers is, but have never seen it mentioned in more than passing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: Do you know of a place where Google Scholar&#8217;s format is described?  I&#8217;ve often wondered what their arrangement with publishers is, but have never seen it mentioned in more than passing.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gelbart</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8638</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gelbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8638</guid>
		<description>There is also the XML metadata format that publishers use to provide metadata to Google Scholar.  It does not include citations, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also the XML metadata format that publishers use to provide metadata to Google Scholar.  It does not include citations, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8573</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8573</guid>
		<description>Ben, 

Thanks for the pointer, great post at your blog (which I&#039;ve added to my blogroll)!  You might find the Physics arXiv&#039;s API interesting (&lt;a href=&quot;http://export.arxiv.org/api_help/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;).  There is also a mailing list, linked from that page.

On the issue of machine-readability standards, there is already a standard for metadata (OAI) that is quite useful (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.openarchives.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;), and which is supported by many journals. I do think it can be improved a lot, and there is progress in this direction (OAI is on version 2, already).  Similar standards don&#039;t yet seem to exist for entire articles, so there is an interesting opportunity there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, </p>
<p>Thanks for the pointer, great post at your blog (which I&#8217;ve added to my blogroll)!  You might find the Physics arXiv&#8217;s API interesting (<a href="http://export.arxiv.org/api_help/" rel="nofollow">link</a>).  There is also a mailing list, linked from that page.</p>
<p>On the issue of machine-readability standards, there is already a standard for metadata (OAI) that is quite useful (<a href="http://www.openarchives.org/" rel="nofollow">link</a>), and which is supported by many journals. I do think it can be improved a lot, and there is progress in this direction (OAI is on version 2, already).  Similar standards don&#8217;t yet seem to exist for entire articles, so there is an interesting opportunity there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8572</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8572</guid>
		<description>I very much agree with you that the machine-readable journal article is long overdue.  I wrote about the idea a bit here [http://i9606.blogspot.com/2007/10/where-is-api.html]

 Though it seems like a great way to move things forward eventually, I don&#039;t think pushing for government mandates is really going to work any time soon.  This is because a) the technology for doing this effectively really is challenging to use b) most people have a hard time understanding what &quot;machine-readable&quot; means, c) all of the publishers will fight it (unless the standard comes from one of them - and then they will fight with each other).

Before it can reach the level of broad standards, some one really need to step up and build a working example and demonstrate it.  Ideally, an organization that is already pretty well respected like PLOS (http://www.plos.org/) could be convinced to host a machine-useful version of their journal.  Failing that, a system could be built on top of a collection of existing journal articles.  If the system could be demonstrated to do new and useful things (e.g. answer cross-paper queries) then perhaps the argument could then be carried to government forces.  Otherwise, perhaps the argument could be carried directly to scientists and a completely new journal created.  (I kind of like the latter idea and would be keen to be a part of it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much agree with you that the machine-readable journal article is long overdue.  I wrote about the idea a bit here [http://i9606.blogspot.com/2007/10/where-is-api.html]</p>
<p> Though it seems like a great way to move things forward eventually, I don&#8217;t think pushing for government mandates is really going to work any time soon.  This is because a) the technology for doing this effectively really is challenging to use b) most people have a hard time understanding what &#8220;machine-readable&#8221; means, c) all of the publishers will fight it (unless the standard comes from one of them &#8211; and then they will fight with each other).</p>
<p>Before it can reach the level of broad standards, some one really need to step up and build a working example and demonstrate it.  Ideally, an organization that is already pretty well respected like PLOS (<a href="http://www.plos.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.plos.org/</a>) could be convinced to host a machine-useful version of their journal.  Failing that, a system could be built on top of a collection of existing journal articles.  If the system could be demonstrated to do new and useful things (e.g. answer cross-paper queries) then perhaps the argument could then be carried to government forces.  Otherwise, perhaps the argument could be carried directly to scientists and a completely new journal created.  (I kind of like the latter idea and would be keen to be a part of it).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8562</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8562</guid>
		<description>Jim: Thanks for the correction.  I&#039;ve seen the policies described in detail before, but somehow this never sunk in - my mistake.  I&#039;ll amend the post slightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim: Thanks for the correction.  I&#8217;ve seen the policies described in detail before, but somehow this never sunk in &#8211; my mistake.  I&#8217;ll amend the post slightly.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8561</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8561</guid>
		<description>Jurgen: Thanks for the links, especially to Blei&#039;s work, which is very interesting.

On the infrastructure issue, it&#039;s worth pointing out that the total infrastructure costs (computing + bandwith) associated to the academic literature are quite modest.  Depending on exactly what one counts, on the order of 1-10 million papers are published per year.  This is storable on a (powerful) single machine, and easily on a rather small cluster of machines.  Bandwidth is more of an issue, but is still relatively modest.  

Andrew Odlyzko has several excellent papers (see, e.g., &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/economics.journals.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;) where he analyses the cost of online publication.  The upshot is that even ten years ago (when the papers were written) the infrastructure costs were relatively small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurgen: Thanks for the links, especially to Blei&#8217;s work, which is very interesting.</p>
<p>On the infrastructure issue, it&#8217;s worth pointing out that the total infrastructure costs (computing + bandwith) associated to the academic literature are quite modest.  Depending on exactly what one counts, on the order of 1-10 million papers are published per year.  This is storable on a (powerful) single machine, and easily on a rather small cluster of machines.  Bandwidth is more of an issue, but is still relatively modest.  </p>
<p>Andrew Odlyzko has several excellent papers (see, e.g., <a href="http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/economics.journals.pdf" rel="nofollow">this one</a>) where he analyses the cost of online publication.  The upshot is that even ten years ago (when the papers were written) the infrastructure costs were relatively small.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8560</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8560</guid>
		<description>Bill: 

One more comment: you say that semantic markup is hard.  I won&#039;t argue the point, but I don&#039;t think one needs to solve the problems you&#039;re presumably thinking about to publish useful machine-readable data.  A mandate to publish (for example) high-quality Open Archive Initiative (OAI) data is quite feasible right now, and would have great benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill: </p>
<p>One more comment: you say that semantic markup is hard.  I won&#8217;t argue the point, but I don&#8217;t think one needs to solve the problems you&#8217;re presumably thinking about to publish useful machine-readable data.  A mandate to publish (for example) high-quality Open Archive Initiative (OAI) data is quite feasible right now, and would have great benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/machine-readable-open-access-scientific-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-8559</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=298#comment-8559</guid>
		<description>Bill: 

Thankyou for the links! I&#039;ll be adding several of those to my blogroll.  

On the mandate issue, I&#039;m personally not entirely sure a mandate is the right idea.  I&#039;m not against it, I just haven&#039;t thought the issue through to my satisfaction. 

With that said, if Open Access is to be mandated, then I think it&#039;s worth doing right, and that means, in my opinion, that provisions should be made for Machine-Readable Open Access.  Such a mandate will prevent the problems I described in &lt;a href=&quot;http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=295&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; from arising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill: </p>
<p>Thankyou for the links! I&#8217;ll be adding several of those to my blogroll.  </p>
<p>On the mandate issue, I&#8217;m personally not entirely sure a mandate is the right idea.  I&#8217;m not against it, I just haven&#8217;t thought the issue through to my satisfaction. </p>
<p>With that said, if Open Access is to be mandated, then I think it&#8217;s worth doing right, and that means, in my opinion, that provisions should be made for Machine-Readable Open Access.  Such a mandate will prevent the problems I described in <a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=295" rel="nofollow">this post</a> from arising.</p>
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