Comments on: Malcolm Gladwell’s new book, “Outliers”, and the 10,000 hour rule http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/ Mon, 07 May 2012 21:35:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Brandon http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-35992 Brandon Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:15:04 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-35992 10,000 hours of practice would include, I imagine, working in that profession. The average day is 40 hours - the typical work year is 2080 hours. Within 5 years, a person would have roughly 10400 hours. Even if you take out vacation time you're still dang close to the 10,000 hour mark. So you have those that were in the field 5-6 years? Yup, they reach the 10,000 hour mark. <em>[MN: To amplify on points made in the post, very few people do 40 hours of deliberate practice extending their abilities at work each week. Most spend most of their time in meetings, doing drudge work, socializing, doing old tasks that don't extend their abilities, and so on. This is true even of the Watson and Crick's of the world, as Watson's book "The Double Helix" makes clear.]</em> 10,000 hours of practice would include, I imagine, working in that profession. The average day is 40 hours – the typical work year is 2080 hours. Within 5 years, a person would have roughly 10400 hours. Even if you take out vacation time you’re still dang close to the 10,000 hour mark. So you have those that were in the field 5-6 years? Yup, they reach the 10,000 hour mark.

[MN: To amplify on points made in the post, very few people do 40 hours of deliberate practice extending their abilities at work each week. Most spend most of their time in meetings, doing drudge work, socializing, doing old tasks that don't extend their abilities, and so on. This is true even of the Watson and Crick's of the world, as Watson's book "The Double Helix" makes clear.]

]]> By: David Kral http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-35013 David Kral Sun, 04 Dec 2011 06:20:25 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-35013 I agree with the 10.000 hr rule. I studied researched and practised federal law in combo with esoteric ancient law since 1995. I centered and focused my work mainly on research and certain practise. I calculate that I have in excess of 27.000 hours into the work thusfar to date. I passed an LSAT at 17 years old with out much study before hand. I hereby proclaim That I did not become totally confident or completely effective untill at least 10.000 hours into the work... I would advance the claim that the subject matter and previous level of intel are essential factors in any form of evaluating the rule I agree with the 10.000 hr rule. I studied researched and practised federal law in combo with esoteric ancient law since 1995. I centered and focused my work mainly on research and certain practise. I calculate that I have in excess of 27.000 hours into the work thusfar to date. I passed an LSAT at 17 years old with out much study before hand. I hereby proclaim That I did not become totally confident or completely effective untill at least 10.000 hours into the work… I would advance the claim that the subject matter and previous level of intel are essential factors in any form of evaluating the rule

]]> By: “The Road to Success is Always Under Construction…” | isitalladream http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-34564 “The Road to Success is Always Under Construction…” | isitalladream Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:03:07 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-34564 [...] I read Malcolm Gladwell’s book, “The Outliers,” and was really inspired by the 10,000 hour rule that describes the idea that is takes 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to master a subject or [...] [...] I read Malcolm Gladwell’s book, “The Outliers,” and was really inspired by the 10,000 hour rule that describes the idea that is takes 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to master a subject or [...]

]]> By: Connecteev » The 10000 hour rule http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-32650 Connecteev » The 10000 hour rule Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:35:42 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-32650 [...] Nielsen is skeptical (even critical) when he writes, ”How can one match this level of devotion? 10,000 hours is a lot of time, and most studies [...] [...] Nielsen is skeptical (even critical) when he writes, ”How can one match this level of devotion? 10,000 hours is a lot of time, and most studies [...]

]]> By: Michael A. Robson http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-31003 Michael A. Robson Thu, 01 Sep 2011 03:27:06 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-31003 Cool blog! I just finished reading Outliers a second time, just loved it. Not only does Gladwell point out how some of our greatest geniuses and wunderkids had amazing stories (and very lucky ones), they also point us in the direction of how we can change our own society to create even more brilliant minds. Highly recommended! To those not satisfied with the 'how to' aspect...have you picked an area in which (like the Beatles) you want to get your 10,000 hours? Is there a way you can redo your day to day schedule to speed up your 10,000 hr acquisition time (eg. 3 years instead of 10)? Cool blog! I just finished reading Outliers a second time, just loved it. Not only does Gladwell point out how some of our greatest geniuses and wunderkids had amazing stories (and very lucky ones), they also point us in the direction of how we can change our own society to create even more brilliant minds. Highly recommended!

To those not satisfied with the ‘how to’ aspect…have you picked an area in which (like the Beatles) you want to get your 10,000 hours? Is there a way you can redo your day to day schedule to speed up your 10,000 hr acquisition time (eg. 3 years instead of 10)?

]]> By: Joeme http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-30986 Joeme Sun, 28 Aug 2011 05:29:21 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-30986 All your examples in your argument are based on theoretical discoveries by people with higher than average intelligence. How about the average person, or a real skill infact. How long does it take to become a "Master" Machinist, or Carpenter? trades are set on 4-5 year apprenticeships with hours ranging from 6-8000 hours, and even then after 5 years in your trade many of the people still perform terrible work and takes another 5 years in their discipline before they are regarded by their peer and others as "master" tradesman. How about sports? With people pushing the boundries of physical abilities every year it takes more and more practice to compete at the same level as the pro's. Shit you have to basically be bread to do one thing to be competitive these days, and even then only the talented ones make it to the top. Do you think Wayne Gretzky became what he was in 2 or 3 years of playing the sport? Fuck no. He was bread to do one thing, he spent thousands and thousands of hours and years of his life playing hockey. He played other sports such as lacrosse to improve his ability in hockey, Ill bet by the age of 12 he had more than 10,000 hours of his life playing sports. All your examples in your argument are based on theoretical discoveries by people with higher than average intelligence. How about the average person, or a real skill infact. How long does it take to become a “Master” Machinist, or Carpenter? trades are set on 4-5 year apprenticeships with hours ranging from 6-8000 hours, and even then after 5 years in your trade many of the people still perform terrible work and takes another 5 years in their discipline before they are regarded by their peer and others as “master” tradesman.

How about sports? With people pushing the boundries of physical abilities every year it takes more and more practice to compete at the same level as the pro’s. Shit you have to basically be bread to do one thing to be competitive these days, and even then only the talented ones make it to the top. Do you think Wayne Gretzky became what he was in 2 or 3 years of playing the sport? Fuck no. He was bread to do one thing, he spent thousands and thousands of hours and years of his life playing hockey. He played other sports such as lacrosse to improve his ability in hockey, Ill bet by the age of 12 he had more than 10,000 hours of his life playing sports.

]]> By: Yes, And « Bernadette Anat http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-30965 Yes, And « Bernadette Anat Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:23:29 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-30965 [...] Slate article I was reading referenced Outliers’ 10,000 hours theory. I thought, I’ve got that kind of time coming up. What things would I be willing to put [...] [...] Slate article I was reading referenced Outliers’ 10,000 hours theory. I thought, I’ve got that kind of time coming up. What things would I be willing to put [...]

]]> By: shot http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-30957 shot Sat, 06 Aug 2011 21:56:32 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-30957 I think your argument against 10,000 hour rule is rather weak. You need to realize that people have different capabilities. NOT all people are made equal. A true genius may require much less time than an average Joe to acquire the same level of mastery in the area. I personally think 10,000 hours is based on someone with moderate innate talent. People with natural talent in the area could use much less time. Also worth noting that many areas in science(or other discipline) can overlap. While math and Physics, and geology and paleontology are different areas of discipline, there are many qualities that are common or interchangeable. I think your argument against 10,000 hour rule is rather weak.

You need to realize that people have different capabilities. NOT all people are made equal.

A true genius may require much less time than an average Joe to acquire the same level of mastery in the area.

I personally think 10,000 hours is based on someone with moderate innate talent. People with natural talent in the area could use much less time.

Also worth noting that many areas in science(or other discipline) can overlap. While math and Physics, and geology and paleontology are different areas of discipline, there are many qualities that are common or interchangeable.

]]> By: jbjohnso http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-30947 jbjohnso Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:35:44 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-30947 If not for a numerical figure, some people would simply feel aimless. Why invest 10,000 hours into something, repeating the same mistakes by the way, when you can learn and master something in one percent of that, 100 hours? A strict figure like 10,000 is rigid at best and arbitrary at its worst. If not for a numerical figure, some people would simply feel aimless. Why invest 10,000 hours into something, repeating the same mistakes by the way, when you can learn and master something in one percent of that, 100 hours? A strict figure like 10,000 is rigid at best and arbitrary at its worst.

]]> By: Anna http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/malcolm-gladwell%e2%80%99s-new-book-outliers-and-the-10000-hour-rule/comment-page-2/#comment-30931 Anna Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:05:42 +0000 http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=496#comment-30931 With the examples you give of people jumping ahead of the game with less than 10,000 of work personally, in that field there was definitely more than 10,000 hours of work. Another consideration is that perhaps the rule isn't best applied to knowledge, since anyone can pick up a book and get information, but to a skill. Making discoveries isn't a skill. If you make a discovery that doesn't mean you are a master of that field. This theory is more clearly in relation to your mastery of a skill, either physical or mental, that requires practice and repetition. Taking risks and creating new scientific theories is not so much a skill. Maybe think of learning a new language, sport, communication or problem solving. After 10,000 hours of work with the same task you learn what the driving forces are, what the common problems are and how to fix them, and complete it accurately, speedily and consistently. Then you can be considered an expert. Innovation is not something one can practice. With the examples you give of people jumping ahead of the game with less than 10,000 of work personally, in that field there was definitely more than 10,000 hours of work. Another consideration is that perhaps the rule isn’t best applied to knowledge, since anyone can pick up a book and get information, but to a skill. Making discoveries isn’t a skill. If you make a discovery that doesn’t mean you are a master of that field. This theory is more clearly in relation to your mastery of a skill, either physical or mental, that requires practice and repetition. Taking risks and creating new scientific theories is not so much a skill. Maybe think of learning a new language, sport, communication or problem solving. After 10,000 hours of work with the same task you learn what the driving forces are, what the common problems are and how to fix them, and complete it accurately, speedily and consistently. Then you can be considered an expert. Innovation is not something one can practice.

]]>