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	<title>Comments on: Science and Wikipedia</title>
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		<title>By: QIP 2012 wrap-up &#124; The Quantum Pontiff</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-35279</link>
		<dc:creator>QIP 2012 wrap-up &#124; The Quantum Pontiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-35279</guid>
		<description>[...] Also, an editorial note: even though the posts say they are posted by so-and-so, in fact we did them all pretty much jointly, typing simultaneously into a google document. This joint editing worked really well; perhaps if google documents implements latex in a nice way, it might just realize Nielsen&#8217;s dream. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Also, an editorial note: even though the posts say they are posted by so-and-so, in fact we did them all pretty much jointly, typing simultaneously into a google document. This joint editing worked really well; perhaps if google documents implements latex in a nice way, it might just realize Nielsen&#8217;s dream. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11755</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11755</guid>
		<description>Ken - It&#039;s in Tim Berners-Lee&#039;s book &quot;Weaving the Web&quot;.  There&#039;s a particular paragraph in the book that I have in mind, where he talks about the problems that he encountered.  I don&#039;t have immediate access, unfortunately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken &#8211; It&#8217;s in Tim Berners-Lee&#8217;s book &#8220;Weaving the Web&#8221;.  There&#8217;s a particular paragraph in the book that I have in mind, where he talks about the problems that he encountered.  I don&#8217;t have immediate access, unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11754</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11754</guid>
		<description>&gt; he encountered major hostility in trying to create it

Michael, do you have a reference/link/isbn for those of us whose interest has been picqued by organisational resistance to innovation?

Tks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; he encountered major hostility in trying to create it</p>
<p>Michael, do you have a reference/link/isbn for those of us whose interest has been picqued by organisational resistance to innovation?</p>
<p>Tks!</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wireless Take Health Care Out of the Hospital? &#171; ajfortin.com</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11753</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wireless Take Health Care Out of the Hospital? &#171; ajfortin.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11753</guid>
		<description>[...] happen. Just like the phenomenon of Wikipedia did not come from the university (as Charles Nesson recently noted), the new models of health care may not come from the hospital.    Posted in Healthcare, New Media. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] happen. Just like the phenomenon of Wikipedia did not come from the university (as Charles Nesson recently noted), the new models of health care may not come from the hospital.    Posted in Healthcare, New Media. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bacon</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11751</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11751</guid>
		<description>&quot;Are you saying that Wikipedia is “just” stamp collecting, and therefore not worth academics’ time?&quot;

I think most academics would view it this way, yes.  Which isn&#039;t to say, like you claim, that it isn&#039;t a superb innovation.  

Oh: Ivory is a brand of soap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are you saying that Wikipedia is “just” stamp collecting, and therefore not worth academics’ time?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think most academics would view it this way, yes.  Which isn&#8217;t to say, like you claim, that it isn&#8217;t a superb innovation.  </p>
<p>Oh: Ivory is a brand of soap.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11750</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 15:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11750</guid>
		<description>Typical academics are very concerned with getting credit for their ideas.

This is certainly understandable, as ideas are their main currency.

An academic can get some credit by writing a good review paper, which is a lot like a good wikipedia entry. But without having ownership of that entry -- without being able to put it on a C.V. -- there&#039;s no credit.

I&#039;ve heard of efforts to build an &quot;expert authored&quot; wiki -- I think it&#039;s called.... knol? Don&#039;t know if it&#039;s going anywhere.

But I agree that having some sort of credit associated with contributing to a wiki would attract more academics.

The other discouraging thing, to academics, is wikipedia&#039;s prohibition against original research. This means the person most capable of writing an entry about a newly developing topic is not allowed to do so. If this were allowed, and authors got credit, wikipedia would look pretty different (for better or worse) -- and I imagine many more academics would be involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typical academics are very concerned with getting credit for their ideas.</p>
<p>This is certainly understandable, as ideas are their main currency.</p>
<p>An academic can get some credit by writing a good review paper, which is a lot like a good wikipedia entry. But without having ownership of that entry &#8212; without being able to put it on a C.V. &#8212; there&#8217;s no credit.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard of efforts to build an &#8220;expert authored&#8221; wiki &#8212; I think it&#8217;s called&#8230;. knol? Don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s going anywhere.</p>
<p>But I agree that having some sort of credit associated with contributing to a wiki would attract more academics.</p>
<p>The other discouraging thing, to academics, is wikipedia&#8217;s prohibition against original research. This means the person most capable of writing an entry about a newly developing topic is not allowed to do so. If this were allowed, and authors got credit, wikipedia would look pretty different (for better or worse) &#8212; and I imagine many more academics would be involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11749</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11749</guid>
		<description>Andrew and Gordon,

Tim Berners-Lee was a programmer at CERN, not one of the physicists.  And he encountered major hostility in trying to create it; it certainly was not something CERN was keen to do.  Only a few years later did CERN conveniently remember their &quot;role&quot; in creating the web.  

So the web seems is an example of a single individual in an academic environment overcoming considerable odds to do something innovative.

In the case of Wikipedia, it&#039;s a social construct of a large group of people, not a single person.  In such an inherently social situation, where network effects are important, the systematic suppression of innovation is considerably more worrying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew and Gordon,</p>
<p>Tim Berners-Lee was a programmer at CERN, not one of the physicists.  And he encountered major hostility in trying to create it; it certainly was not something CERN was keen to do.  Only a few years later did CERN conveniently remember their &#8220;role&#8221; in creating the web.  </p>
<p>So the web seems is an example of a single individual in an academic environment overcoming considerable odds to do something innovative.</p>
<p>In the case of Wikipedia, it&#8217;s a social construct of a large group of people, not a single person.  In such an inherently social situation, where network effects are important, the systematic suppression of innovation is considerably more worrying.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Pasha</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11748</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Pasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11748</guid>
		<description>Hi

The truth is innovation -by definition- happens where it is least expected. Yes, scientists missed the Wikipedia phenomenon. But scientists and academics created the internet and the world wide web, while industry sputtered and &quot;didn&#039;t get it&quot; for about two decades. 

I recommend &quot;High stakes, no prisoners&quot; by Charles Ferguson, it tells this story well. It is remarkable that most scientists know the story, but haven&#039;t really internalized it.

Regards

Gordon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>The truth is innovation -by definition- happens where it is least expected. Yes, scientists missed the Wikipedia phenomenon. But scientists and academics created the internet and the world wide web, while industry sputtered and &#8220;didn&#8217;t get it&#8221; for about two decades. </p>
<p>I recommend &#8220;High stakes, no prisoners&#8221; by Charles Ferguson, it tells this story well. It is remarkable that most scientists know the story, but haven&#8217;t really internalized it.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Gordon</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11746</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 07:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11746</guid>
		<description>Michael,

This may be off-topic, but research scientists *did* invent and build the Web, via CERN. The web is the key enabling technology for Wikipedia. I think of that in some sense as the &quot;hardware&quot; and wikipedia as the &quot;software&quot;. To continue the analogy, many different pieces of software can be run on the one piece of hardware.

I&#039;m not too distressed that one piece of software - Wikipedia - didn&#039;t come out of academia. I&#039;m damn happy that the innovation it represents will transform academia, which likes all power structures has a bad tendency to ossify if not knocked around occasionally.

Cheers,

Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>This may be off-topic, but research scientists *did* invent and build the Web, via CERN. The web is the key enabling technology for Wikipedia. I think of that in some sense as the &#8220;hardware&#8221; and wikipedia as the &#8220;software&#8221;. To continue the analogy, many different pieces of software can be run on the one piece of hardware.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not too distressed that one piece of software &#8211; Wikipedia &#8211; didn&#8217;t come out of academia. I&#8217;m damn happy that the innovation it represents will transform academia, which likes all power structures has a bad tendency to ossify if not knocked around occasionally.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/science-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-11733</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Nielsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 22:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=402#comment-11733</guid>
		<description>Dave, I&#039;m not sure I follow your comment.  Are you saying that Wikipedia is &quot;just&quot; stamp collecting, and therefore not worth academics&#039; time?

(I don&#039;t know what a soap castler is, and neither, apparently, does Google.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I&#8217;m not sure I follow your comment.  Are you saying that Wikipedia is &#8220;just&#8221; stamp collecting, and therefore not worth academics&#8217; time?</p>
<p>(I don&#8217;t know what a soap castler is, and neither, apparently, does Google.)</p>
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